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    Where is the Money ?

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    bartmart
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    Re: Where is the Money ?

    Post by bartmart on Tue Jan 26, 2010 6:45 pm

    I have posted the following on waccoe in answer to a response, but suspect that I may have more chance of getting an answer to some of the more technical questions on here so will copy on here :-

    'I think the only answer to some of these questions is to keep looking at the published accounts and to try to make sense of them, even though there are around eleven pages of figures.

    But before that I think I better state why I started this and the other thread.

    I have not got an anti Bates agenda, I don’t really want to stir anything up at a time when things seem to be going well. I don’t expect Bates to publicly state how much money we have got to spend (I am sure other football clubs can count and guess better than we can so know anyway), and I would much rather talk, post, about football matters.

    It is just that Bates does come with a lot of baggage, I do get suspicious when offshore companies write off eighteen million pounds, and despite the arguments about the figures, Bates has been unbelievably lucky in the windfalls that a third division club has received since administration.

    With regard to the published accounts, the next set to be published will hopefully answer most of the questions I have asked, but in the mean time it would probably be useful to try and understand the previous set, and the easiest way to understand them is probably to keep reading them and ask questions on here on the items that I don’t understand, in the hope that a qualified accountant will read the post, take pity and answer my questions.

    The first page seems pretty straightforward, turnover was £23,249.000, the cost of sales was £4,166.000, administration was £18,217.000 (£12,746.000 on wages), leaving an operating profit 0f £866,000

    We received interest of £88,000 , had interest payable of £52,000, and had a profit on ordinary activities after taxation of £902,000.

    The first mysteries seem to arrive in the player trading columns, we seem to have an outlay of £1, 076,000 on outgoing transfers, although this comes under the heading ‘Administration’ and we have a profit of £4,727.000 on disposal of player registrations, which I assume is the
    ‘Chelsea money.

    The second page gets more interesting as we seem to have £5,735.000 owing to us (this figure includes £1,090,000 cash in bank), but owe out £9,568.000 to be paid within one year.

    When I look at the notes for this £9,568.000, it states that £6,155.000 of this debt is due to accruals and deferred income ?

    Does anyone know, is this figure nothing to worry about, i.e. is it just estimating next years wages and costs, or do we actually owe some other organisations £6,155.000'

    Rickd
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    Re: Where is the Money ?

    Post by Rickd on Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:46 pm

    Last Accounts Made Up To: 30/06/2008 (FULL)
    Next Accounts Due: 31/03/2010 i.e. the last legal filing date at Companies House but the accounts would normally be made up to
    30/6/2009. So trading up to 30/6/09 should be covered in these accounts. The accounts include a "report" from the directors about trading during the financial year and may mention post financial year events if these are deemed relevant.

    The Annual report (form 363s) is a different document which confirms who the directors and shareholders are, where the registered office is and items like that. It is filed separately at Companies House.
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    LUSCBRADFORD
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    Re: Where is the Money ?

    Post by LUSCBRADFORD on Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:19 am

    bartmart wrote:
    The first mysteries seem to arrive in the player trading columns, we seem to have an outlay of £1, 076,000 on outgoing transfers, although this comes under the heading ‘Administration’ and we have a profit of £4,727.000 on disposal of player registrations, which I assume is the
    ‘Chelsea money.
    I thought this figure related to sale of Players such as Healy,Cresswell and Blake???

    Storry
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    Re: Where is the Money ?

    Post by Storry on Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:41 am

    Just been having a look at the accounts of holding company - period ended 30 June 2008, and the 363a return.

    1) Who owns Leeds United?

    Leeds City Holdings Limited (05765697) owns 100% of the shares of Leeds United Football Club Limited (06233875).

    The shares of Leeds City Holdings Limited are held as follows:

    Forward Sports Fund - 102,000,000 shares (72.9%)
    Mr D. Mannase - 10,000,000 shares (7.1%)
    Outram Investments - 18,000,000 shares (12.9%)
    The Homer Trust - 10,000,000 shares (7.1%)

    2) How much cash have our owners put into the club (including buying it from the administrators) since administration?

    The total paid for the shares in LCHL was £3,000,000, so assuming everyone paid the same price it breaks down as:

    Forward Sports Fund - £2,185,714
    Mr D. Mannase - £214,286
    Outram Investments - £385,714
    The Homer Trust - £214,286

    £3m total cash received from our owners up to 30 June 2008.

    3) What cash have we spent up to 30 June 2008?

    liabilities settled (i.e successful bid to buy club via administration process) - £2,716k
    Legal fees connected with administration process - £606k
    Pre-golden share costs (player wages etc.) - £1,841k
    Amount paid to administrators - £1,800k

    As Rick has pointed out, only 2% of the cost of the above will be be a profit & loss account cost per year (i.e. it's amortised over 50 years). So there's a big chunk of cash, more than twice the amount invested by our owners, 98% of which has not yet been taken into account for "profit" purposes. But the cash will have been spent.


    Other expenditure:

    £515k on fixtures and fittings (bought during the year, not acquired from KPMG)
    £2,494k alterations & improvements (new during the year, not part of the assets acquired from KPMG)
    £185k Land & Buildings (again, new during the year, not part of the assets acquired from KPMG)

    One other item - LUFCL has a profit before tax (excluding player trading) of £902k profit. LCHL has a consolidated (i.e. LUFCL + LCHL) loss before tax (excluding player trading) of £26k. Therefore there is expenditure of £928k in the holding company. Possibly the cost of the 15 point appeal?

    So, if the owners have put in £3m, and we have quite a few 'one-off' items coming to around £10m, who is funding the company? Well, player trading generated net cash of around £1.5m, but the main item seems to be the £6m 'accruals & deferred income'. i.e. season ticket money that is for the 2008/2009 season.

    So, for the question "where is the money"? It's probably funding the gap between the £6m that 08/09 season ticket holders put into the club in February 2008, and the £1m cash that was left at 30 June 2008.

    bartmart
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    Re: Where is the Money ?

    Post by bartmart on Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:27 am

    Thank you very much for the info. I am not going to pretend I understand all or even most of that, but I suspect that it is only by following the published reports of the two companies you mention, and by having people with qualifications or an understanding of published accounts, patiently outline and explain the documents to the uneducated and naïve such as myself, that we can ever begin to get a glimpse of where some of 'our'money is going.

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